I'm talking anti depressants, can I take Ecstasy as well ? What about Acid ? I need to know !

Ravesafe replied:

There is a big danger if your medication is a MOAI. From the RaveSafe Ecstasy web page:

"Deaths have been reported of some MDMA users who were also taking Monoamine
Oxidase Inhibitors (MAOI's), which are often prescribed as antidepressants. Therefore
MDMA is not recommended to anyone taking any MAOI."

If not, you should still be very careful since MDMA effects the chemicals that determines your moods.

It is usual for a 'normal'' person to experience a post-E depressions, which sometimes can be quite servere. So if you do suffer from depression, the post-e thing can be even more hectic for people who suffer from depression and we have heard of hosipitalisations as a result.

I am not trying to scare you, but you must be very careful. If you are determined to try it, maybe a small quantity (1/2 or a 1/3 of a pill) will let you know what you are in for.

As for Acid, that's quite different. It's more psycho active than E (you go on a mind trip) and can be very scary. I think you should be even more careful with this one for different reasons.

Anyway, take care and make sure you look after yourself. If you are going to take, make sure you have friends with you and that they know the story.

The reply came:

Thanx for replying. I'm taking the anti depressant called Loriene (generic of Prozac). Please could you find out if that has MOAI stuff, as my chemist always takes the info paper out the box. I'm going to very careful...that's why there are 20 questions.

We approached Dr Charlie for a professional opinion on this:

'Loriene & Prozac are not MOAI's. As for the issue of prozac & ecstasy- ecstasy works in part by causing a massive release of serotonin in certain areas of the brain, & that coupled with release of dopamine leads to the high. However once the effects wear off, there follows a measurable rebound defecit in serotonin that lasts a few days until stores are replenished, & this causes the low that many users experience.

Prozac works by inhibiting the re-uptake of serotonin from the synaptic space back into the neurone, & this leads to a greater concentration of serotonin in the synapse. Theoretically there may be a danger of precipitating 'serotonin syndrome' by mixing e with prozac, though I am unable to find any reports of this. Serotonin syndrome occurs when serotonin levels are too high in the brain, & may involve muscle spasms, fever, confusion, & even convulsions & coma.

However there is some experimental reports that prozac may soften the post ecstasy serotonin depletion & protect against the later toxic effects to serotonin neurons. The bottom line is that mixing the 2 drugs may provoke potentially toxic reactions, though I can find no reported evidence of this.

Secondly I have to presume that she is on prozac for treatment of depression or anxiety, & I certainly echo your words that the post ecstasy low can be particularly severe in such people. MAOI's are a separate grouping of anti-depressant drugs that are dangerous to mix with ecstasy- these are as follows: Parnate (Tranylcypromine) & Aurorix (Meclobemide). With LSD I'm not sure, I think that prozac would decrease the effects of LSD.

However we are getting into messy drug mixes here, & I advise against it. Also keep in mind that most of the stuff people are popping is not pure, & the potentially toxic interactions are great.'

Finally:

Wow thanx so much for all your hard work and answers ! It is greatly appreciated....but I don't think im going to risk it!

Note: the jury is still out on Prozac and E. Serotonin syndrome is a speculated possibility. At the very least, the combination will flatten the E trip. There is also a school of thought that says taking Prozac after MDMA might reduce the risks of neurotoxicty. However this is under debate, so we can't take a position on this. Approached for comments on this, on the 17h Feb 2000 Dr Charlie sent us this:

'I think it is an interesting debate, & I also think that in truth we still know very little about the deeper workings of this stuff, lots is hypothetical, & ultimately the proof comes from long impirical observation in humans. I cetainly would be happy to be proved wrong in this concern. I continue to believe that combining prozac with ecstasy is a risk for it (seratonin syndrome) (acutely that is). From my personal point of view I hesitate to use my brain as a way of proving a point, & if I was to use MDMA, would prefer respectful use rather than adding another chemical to it (ie prozac) with as yet unproven benefit & a whole bunch of its own side-effects & dangers.To further complicate the debate, psychopharmacologists are still not entirely sure how prozac works & why it takes 4 to 6 weeks to produce full antidepressant effects even though it enters the brain as soon as it is taken, but the hypothesis is that it causes a downgrading of the postsynaptic serotonin receptors leading to an antidepressant knock-on effect. Thus the brain may react very differently after ecstasy to an acute comedown dose of prozac compared to the brain on a longer term dose of prozac, but I think the biggest danger is to combine acutely a dose of ecstasy with prozac in someone who does not use prozac. There is evidence that prozac may be protective, but question is how long after the MDMA should one wait before it is safe to take the prozac, how much prozac, & moreover is this research in rats that have been long term on prozac or given prozac only when given the ecstasy. Keep in mind that the rat brain is a useful model for our brains, but there are also major differences (though sometimes I wonder). Also keep in mind as well that prozac has a long half-life, & may still be hanging around the next weekend.'

 

• Added 1st July 1999
  
• Updated 18 February 2000

 

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